I am curious about desktop and especially mobile changes coming, is there a laptop version of Cascade Lake coming. It sounds to me that Intel has been seriously working on hardware fixes for security holes.
Typically lately the server chips are later in designed except for stuff like AVX 512 - so even though Ice Lake for server is stated for 2020, it likely mobile Ice Lake could be 2019.. So there maybe no need for mobile Cascade Lake. There is not much on the future roadmap on this stuff - my guess Intel is keeping it under wrap for a surprise next year.
I would agree that security issues have plaque the computer industry and it good that Intel has made some hardware changes to help - but I more interesting in the primary computer industry which is laptops - what directions they are going.
Right, make sure you minimize mention and importance of the security issues, the area where arguably Intel has been the weakest in. Their chips are affected much more than those from other manufacturers. It's something they should be working on; much more important than the latest laptops.
Well what is important is that Intel is seriously working and corrected the security issues in this release.
This seams realistic but unlike some rumors from a competitor especially the Smash Z, which is obviously 100% a fax have 7nm CPU in size of Switch. Just look it you want - I don't want to discuss competitor rumors in Intel related article.
No I think is very important that Intel is showing that they can overcome the security threats and even production issues to make difference in the project. But honestly, Has a single real Meltdown / Spectre happen in the field or is all theoretical
Whiskey Lake is currently out, which does have security fixes but I believe something in 2019 - maybe Ice Lake. But Intel will keep that secret until the time is right.
That is not what I implying here - I mean taking the architecture enhancements of Cascade Lake and applying it do mobile series. Yes there are mobile Zeon's but the technology is not there to bring that level of cpu technology to the laptop. Time will tell - but one it will likely be possible eliminated to difference between mobile and desktop. Well power technology has change enough so that it can be power in laptop
I think Rudde answer my question - with the Whiskey Lake processors. I believe Whiskey Lake does have the functionality in improvement with Spectre/Meltdown speaks but some of the other functionality is missing. It likely something new in 2019 - maybe Ice Lake.
Cannon Lake has AVX-512 and its initial launch window wasn't too far behind that of Sky Lake-SP. Intel's 10 nm production issue has put them years behind schedule.
Cascade Lake is an errata fixed version of Sky Lake-SP. The Optane DIMM support was initially set to launch with Sky Lake-SP but was pulled at the last minute. Thus with the then known 10 nm issues, Cascade Lake emerged as a stop gap solution for the late 2018 time frame while the 10 nm server part needed time. (I've heard that Cannon Lake-SP was set to be after Sky Lake-SP to follow the regular tick-tock cadence but was pulled off the road map in favor of jumping straight to Ice Lake-SP). Cooper Lake was added to the road map earlier this year to sit between Cascade Lake and Ice Lake-SP
Instead of Cascade Lake, consumers got Whisky Lake and Amber Lake for mobile and ultra mobile this year. Those didn't exist on their road map until roughly a year ago as well.
The real question is if the Ice Lake that we are going to be getting is the same chip that Intel initially had planned under the Ice Lake name. So far the early Ice Lake mobile leaks point toward a mediocre increase in IPC, mainly due to a larger L1 data cache, L2 cache and finally bringing AVX-512 to consumers (the rare as hen's teeth Cannon Lake chips really don't count). The sad thing it is that those changes could have been accomplished on 14 nm at the cost of a larger die size. Ditto for Intel new GPU designs which were all based around 10 nm. Given the lag in 10 nm production, they did have the time to back port certain features like the display controller to bring DP 1.3/DP1.4 to the platform.
No, both Cascade and Cooper Lake are -X and -SP only products based on the original Skylake-X design, i.e. with 1 MB L2 cache instead of 256 KB, less L3 cache, a AVX-512 block and some other minor differences. I have no idea if the -AP series will be based on a different design, but it will almost certainly be based on new dies, due to the highly unusual number of its cores (48). I wonder if Intel will design new 24-core dies (and glue two) or 12-core dies (and glue four).
Mainstream processors (6 to 8 cores, high and mid power) will apparently have to wait for Ice Lake at the end of 2019 (since Cannon Lake was effectively canned), based on Intel's latest roadmap anyway, with the lower power processors being covered by Whiskey Lake (15W) and Amber Lake (5W) until Ice Lake. Intel could yet release an intermediate refresh until Ice Lake, but I strongly doubt they would use the Skylake-X design on their mainstream CPUs.
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16 Comments
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HStewart - Friday, November 16, 2018 - link
I am curious about desktop and especially mobile changes coming, is there a laptop version of Cascade Lake coming. It sounds to me that Intel has been seriously working on hardware fixes for security holes.Typically lately the server chips are later in designed except for stuff like AVX 512 - so even though Ice Lake for server is stated for 2020, it likely mobile Ice Lake could be 2019.. So there maybe no need for mobile Cascade Lake. There is not much on the future roadmap on this stuff - my guess Intel is keeping it under wrap for a surprise next year.
porcupineLTD - Friday, November 16, 2018 - link
Yeah, let's not talk about how Intel is behind its own schedule.HStewart - Friday, November 16, 2018 - link
I would agree that security issues have plaque the computer industry and it good that Intel has made some hardware changes to help - but I more interesting in the primary computer industry which is laptops - what directions they are going.sa666666 - Friday, November 16, 2018 - link
Right, make sure you minimize mention and importance of the security issues, the area where arguably Intel has been the weakest in. Their chips are affected much more than those from other manufacturers. It's something they should be working on; much more important than the latest laptops.HStewart - Saturday, November 17, 2018 - link
Well what is important is that Intel is seriously working and corrected the security issues in this release.This seams realistic but unlike some rumors from a competitor especially the Smash Z, which is obviously 100% a fax have 7nm CPU in size of Switch. Just look it you want - I don't want to discuss competitor rumors in Intel related article.
Kevin G - Sunday, November 18, 2018 - link
In server, security is an uncompromising cornerstone. Fixing Meltdown and Spectre for Cascade Lake was the correct choice.However, they were not the only platforms who suffered from this. Surprisingly some ARM core designs were affected by Meltdown for example.
porcupineLTD - Friday, November 16, 2018 - link
Witch is beside the point of this article and that's my point.HStewart - Saturday, November 17, 2018 - link
No I think is very important that Intel is showing that they can overcome the security threats and even production issues to make difference in the project. But honestly, Has a single real Meltdown / Spectre happen in the field or is all theoreticalRudde - Friday, November 16, 2018 - link
Laptop has Whiskey Lake processors.HStewart - Saturday, November 17, 2018 - link
Whiskey Lake is currently out, which does have security fixes but I believe something in 2019 - maybe Ice Lake. But Intel will keep that secret until the time is right.IntelUser2000 - Saturday, November 17, 2018 - link
Cascade Lake is server-only. And the server-derived HEDT processors.HStewart - Saturday, November 17, 2018 - link
I completely understand that - I was referring to mobile cousinjjjag - Saturday, November 17, 2018 - link
Your question gives away your ignorance. A "laptop version" of a big Xeon part? Try again...HStewart - Saturday, November 17, 2018 - link
That is not what I implying here - I mean taking the architecture enhancements of Cascade Lake and applying it do mobile series. Yes there are mobile Zeon's but the technology is not there to bring that level of cpu technology to the laptop. Time will tell - but one it will likely be possible eliminated to difference between mobile and desktop. Well power technology has change enough so that it can be power in laptopI think Rudde answer my question - with the Whiskey Lake processors. I believe Whiskey Lake does have the functionality in improvement with Spectre/Meltdown speaks but some of the other functionality is missing. It likely something new in 2019 - maybe Ice Lake.
Kevin G - Sunday, November 18, 2018 - link
Cannon Lake has AVX-512 and its initial launch window wasn't too far behind that of Sky Lake-SP. Intel's 10 nm production issue has put them years behind schedule.Cascade Lake is an errata fixed version of Sky Lake-SP. The Optane DIMM support was initially set to launch with Sky Lake-SP but was pulled at the last minute. Thus with the then known 10 nm issues, Cascade Lake emerged as a stop gap solution for the late 2018 time frame while the 10 nm server part needed time. (I've heard that Cannon Lake-SP was set to be after Sky Lake-SP to follow the regular tick-tock cadence but was pulled off the road map in favor of jumping straight to Ice Lake-SP). Cooper Lake was added to the road map earlier this year to sit between Cascade Lake and Ice Lake-SP
Instead of Cascade Lake, consumers got Whisky Lake and Amber Lake for mobile and ultra mobile this year. Those didn't exist on their road map until roughly a year ago as well.
The real question is if the Ice Lake that we are going to be getting is the same chip that Intel initially had planned under the Ice Lake name. So far the early Ice Lake mobile leaks point toward a mediocre increase in IPC, mainly due to a larger L1 data cache, L2 cache and finally bringing AVX-512 to consumers (the rare as hen's teeth Cannon Lake chips really don't count). The sad thing it is that those changes could have been accomplished on 14 nm at the cost of a larger die size. Ditto for Intel new GPU designs which were all based around 10 nm. Given the lag in 10 nm production, they did have the time to back port certain features like the display controller to bring DP 1.3/DP1.4 to the platform.
Santoval - Sunday, November 18, 2018 - link
No, both Cascade and Cooper Lake are -X and -SP only products based on the original Skylake-X design, i.e. with 1 MB L2 cache instead of 256 KB, less L3 cache, a AVX-512 block and some other minor differences. I have no idea if the -AP series will be based on a different design, but it will almost certainly be based on new dies, due to the highly unusual number of its cores (48). I wonder if Intel will design new 24-core dies (and glue two) or 12-core dies (and glue four).Mainstream processors (6 to 8 cores, high and mid power) will apparently have to wait for Ice Lake at the end of 2019 (since Cannon Lake was effectively canned), based on Intel's latest roadmap anyway, with the lower power processors being covered by Whiskey Lake (15W) and Amber Lake (5W) until Ice Lake. Intel could yet release an intermediate refresh until Ice Lake, but I strongly doubt they would use the Skylake-X design on their mainstream CPUs.