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  • JoeyJoJo123 - Wednesday, July 18, 2018 - link

    "Google’s counterargument to this was that the restrictions were necessary in order to avoid fragmentation"

    They do that to themselves by putting the onus of publishing their OS level updates to the phone manufacturers rather than taking on the task of standardizing the upgrade/update process themselves. Yeah, it's a monumentally more difficult task due to how each developer wants to custom skin over the base Android UI, but again, they allow this, so again, they let the fragmentation happen.

    Would be fine if all phones were sold under the stock Android UI (no, not even the Google Pixel base install, as even that has a custom UI) with manufacturers having their choice to preload whatever apps they want, with UI layers being a custom app. In this manner everyone could be eligible for direct Android updates from Google and if a UI layer app broke (say, the Samsung UI), then the onus for updating that one app would be on the manufacturer for fixing their custom piece.
  • quorm - Wednesday, July 18, 2018 - link

    Instead of maintaining the underlying OS, Google has taken the opposite approach and broken out their own apps, so they can be updated while the OS remains buggy and vulnerable.

    Google's primary goal is to keep their phones an effective conduit for their ads, and it shows. So many of their products, not just Android, remain in a buggy state, but they don't care, since it's not really their core business.
  • sharath.naik - Wednesday, July 18, 2018 - link

    EU has become a money grabbing machine. More like a patent troll.
    1. Google requiring to install search and browser . for app store app seems logical as the search is integrates across and you need the browser components in most applications. Nothing stopping others from installing alternative browsers!!
    2. paid people to promote their app. May be they for got what ads are? some one paying to promote their product.
    3. This may be the only issue. google can prevent installing their apps on android forks but cannot force people from selling android forks without google apps. But the statement itself does not make this distinction clear. if google was asking not to install the apps on the forks or not to sell the forks altogether. I am suspecting the prior as the later will be not be appropriate.
  • sharath.naik - Wednesday, July 18, 2018 - link

    OK they did make point 3 clear. EU is akin to a ambulance chasing bunch of lawyers.
  • zepi - Wednesday, July 18, 2018 - link

    Google could arguably choose not to sell it's products in EU if it thinks that the anti-trust rules are unfair.
  • milkod2001 - Thursday, July 19, 2018 - link

    And loose core business market at several $billions a year. You mad?
  • zepi - Thursday, July 19, 2018 - link

    Better follow the local laws then. Microsoft was fined handsomely for bundling browser, forcing software on computer oem’s and I can’t remember what else.

    Legal precedent seems to have been set back then.
  • peevee - Friday, July 20, 2018 - link

    "Google could arguably choose not to sell it's products in EU if it thinks that the anti-trust rules are unfair."

    Google does not sell Android.
  • sseemaku - Wednesday, July 18, 2018 - link

    Can you explain how can companies sell 'open source' android phone when google doesn't allow app store if their search and browser app are not pre-installed? The fine is very less in my opinion.
  • sseemaku - Wednesday, July 18, 2018 - link

    "Nothing stopping others from installing alternative browsers" why can't i uninstall the damn chrome browser after i installed another browser? From where I come from, that is called forcing people to use a specific app and killing alternatives.
  • quiksilvr - Thursday, July 19, 2018 - link

    I do agree that the whole system vs user application is an odd dichotomy in the Android space. Very few applications actually ARE necessary for the OS to operate (again it depends on the manufacturer). Basically if you can disable it, you can probably uninstall it.
  • PeachNCream - Friday, July 20, 2018 - link

    The problem with the idea that if you can disable it, you can uninstall it is that system apps aren't easily uninstalled without getting root access. Lots of phones are locked down hard enough to make gaining root basically impossible and others are too obscure or have such a short shelf life that there are too few of a certain model to make the effort of breaking them open worth it so we end up stuck with a set of apps that we sometimes grudgingly end up using simply because they're impossible to get rid of completely.
  • peevee - Friday, July 20, 2018 - link

    "why can't i uninstall the damn chrome browser after i installed another browser"

    Because not any company has to do what you want. Want mobile OS where you can uninstall default browser? Write your own.
  • Samus - Thursday, July 19, 2018 - link

    In this case it's plausible to see the argument the EU is simply trying to protect its customers, specifically their privacy and freedom of choice.
  • peevee - Friday, July 20, 2018 - link

    They have freedom of choice. For example, I use firefox on my Android phone because it allows ad-blocking plugins. And Firefox Focus for privacy. Chrome being also installed does not interfere with it at all.
  • Tams80 - Wednesday, July 25, 2018 - link

    Google have abused their monopoly of Android devices. As Android devices make up the only real competition to Apple's ecosystem, it's bad for consumers.

    I don't like the EU, but it has to fine them such large amounts otherwise the fines mean nothing.

    If you want to have a go at the EU, go for something that actually is wrong such as the proposed copyright laws.
  • jrs77 - Wednesday, July 18, 2018 - link

    This should've been done years ago.
  • abufrejoval - Wednesday, July 18, 2018 - link

    Nice to see that antitrust mechanisms basically work, terrible to see how long it takes. Google is sure to drag this out for many more years and by the time the fines will be finally paid Google's monopoly will still stand in Europe and all those other parts of the world, which actually strive to enable open competition. Google's, Facebook's, Amazon's business models naturally aim for and work best with a practical monopoly and are broken because of it.
  • CassieGriffin - Wednesday, July 18, 2018 - link

    Google is a trustworthy company and all product are very secured. They follow an all rule offered by Gov. But anything issue with Google, I am sure they are working on the problem and they would have come soon. I have found the URL https://googlesupport.co/blog/google-play-services... which is very helpful for google play store problem
  • Tams80 - Wednesday, July 25, 2018 - link

    You sound like a Google evangelist.

    Google, or rather Alphabet are a company who owe you nothing more than what you pay them for. Paid them nothing? Then you owe them your data, which they will mine. As a company, they will try to give you the least they can for you pay (or 'pay'), as that makes the most profit.

    They are not your friend, and you really shouldn't trust them.
  • HStewart - Wednesday, July 18, 2018 - link

    Is it ironic that after years of Google pestering Microsoft about browser on Windows - that Google gets part of their own medicine now.
  • id4andrei - Wednesday, July 18, 2018 - link

    "Fate, it seems, is not without a sense of irony." - Morpheus
  • peevee - Friday, July 20, 2018 - link

    I don't think Google did it. It was Netscape. Which was insanity too, given that by that time ALL OSes for PCs included browsers.
    Of course, EU bureaucrats were happy to steal money from an American company back then too.
    MAJOR retaliation is in order. I suggest fining BMW and Mercedes for their dirty tricks in diesel cars too (no, VW is NOT the only company which did/does that).
  • Tams80 - Wednesday, July 25, 2018 - link

    American companies are among the worst for trampling over consumer rights. Warranties in the US are piss poor.

    I've no doubt there are those in power in the EU who wish to fine American companies for their money. There are also those who wish to put consumers on an even playing field with companies.
  • PeachNCream - Wednesday, July 18, 2018 - link

    This is the best thing to ever happen to Alphabet and the EU deserves credit where due for acting to stop the slippery crap Google's been up to for years. Now maybe I can get my hands on a "clean" phone with a few less Google preinstalles crapware apps without having to load a custom rom or root and nuk system apps just to get a marginally functional device.
  • Xex360 - Wednesday, July 18, 2018 - link

    Maybe we'll start to see phones with clean android installs. It's getting nearly impossible for me to get a new phone, most phones are notched, impossible to unlock the bootloader or root, manufacturers won't update their phones, while others are just bad phones.
  • ZipSpeed - Wednesday, July 18, 2018 - link

    Yeah, this is why I decided to move to Apple. The ecosystem is gated, there's little room for customization and the entry price is high, but damn it, the software runs great on the hardware, no bloat & crapware (a lot of the Apple apps that come with the phone can be uninstalled), and it's very rare I experience a full crash where I have to do a hard reboot.
  • FreckledTrout - Wednesday, July 18, 2018 - link

    Same here Zip. Personally that is all I want is the software to just work and perform well. I spend enough time tweaking things working in IT so having a phone that just works is much more important to me. So I stick to Apples hassle free walled garden.
  • id4andrei - Wednesday, July 18, 2018 - link

    Yep. Nothing like years old hardware sold as new; or ergonomically and technically faulty keyboards; or touchbar gimmicks and dongle life. Let's not forget throttled devices to nudge you into upgrading. Everything is great and truly works in Apple land.
  • ZipSpeed - Wednesday, July 18, 2018 - link

    Yeah, because everything is perfect in Google Land when the EU decides to handout a massive fine.
  • PeachNCream - Friday, July 20, 2018 - link

    Apple is not free from problems, but if you're willing to pay the entry price, you do get a better overall experience than you can on a large number of android devices.
  • peevee - Friday, July 20, 2018 - link

    "It's getting nearly impossible for me to get a new phone, most phones are notched,"

    So, you prefer dead glass around your front camera instead of extra screen space used by status bar? WHY?!?!?
  • Tams80 - Wednesday, July 25, 2018 - link

    Yes, because it gives somewhere to hold the damn device and makes it structurally stronger. More components can also be fit underneath.
  • Xex360 - Wednesday, July 18, 2018 - link

    Problem is just like with Intel, it's too late, just like AMD before, Nokia, Microsoft to name won't be able to compete anymore.
  • damianrobertjones - Wednesday, July 18, 2018 - link

    Welcome Google... Welcome to the world as per Microsoft 20 years ago.
  • rocky12345 - Wednesday, July 18, 2018 - link

    So is the EU now gonna go after Apple for how they enforce their own set of rules they have for the mobile network providers. Hell no one can touch a Apple device before it is sold to the customer so you end up with what Apple wants on their mobile devices. So you can be assured they will have everything Apple on them and nothing from the competition installed on their devices such as other web browsers etc etc etc. Then again it has been a long time since I seen a fresh out of the box Apple device so maybe this has all changed.

    I'm sorry but for me at least I would want the products that are made from the company that makes the OS such as the search functions and web browser etc etc. It will at least give the device half a chance to work properly out of the box. What I do hate is all of these device manufactures installing their own bloat ware on the device which slows it down or just makes it buggy quite often. If I buy an Android device I expect to get a Android experience from it not what some company thinks it should be.

    An example would be changing the UI because some of them are very nasty to look at and can be very buggy. I like Samsung phones but I hate the bloatware they like to put on their devices. You can get rid of most of it but unless you remove their OS and install a clean Android into it you are still stuck with a lot of junk because they won't let you remove it which a lot of the time slows the device down somewhat.

    So for some of this I have to side with Google on all of this but not all of it. I do think it is high time those EU money grabbers take a closer look at Apple though,they are the poster child for anti competitive behavior yet no one seems to care and they turn a blind eye towards their actions.
  • FreckledTrout - Wednesday, July 18, 2018 - link

    You have some points on Apple but the real issue, to the EU, is when you license an OS to third parties and force those buying the OS to use/install certain applications. Apple does not license its OS to others. Also Apple does set Google search as the default. Sure Apple does some things one could consider monopolistic but I don't believe they will get fined under EU's antitrust laws as they do not meet any of the current criteria.
  • rocky12345 - Wednesday, July 18, 2018 - link

    I think one of the points I was trying to make is Google makes the OS as well as Apps for the OS which they would like to see installed on their OS and the devices so the end user gets to see Googles Apps first as well as have a way to get to the Google Play store which is pretty important as well because you need a way to install your own Apps form the play store. There is nothing stopping everyone from installing the software they like to use personally. I do like the idea of booting up the device the first time and it just works and has the needed software on it so I can use the device. I would prefer to have both the OS and Apps form the same dev that way when we first boot up we know it should work right and having maybe third party Apps installed might make for a bad first experience for the end user. I feel the same way about Windows I prefer having a set of programs from Microsoft on my first boot up and then I tailor Windows to my liking and most likely will not use those programs again but it was nice to be able to get on the internet and download the software I want to use. Without having the needed software my user experience would be a lot worse for sure.

    Like another person relied posted I guess Apple gets around all of this because they have a rather low market share in both i devices and OSX so the watch dogs pretty much do not care and whether that is done on purpose by Apple or not I guess only they would know for sure but I am going to guess that if they could they would like to have a i device and a mac system in every house hold around the world and have no others to compete with..That's the Apple way after all.
  • id4andrei - Wednesday, July 18, 2018 - link

    Apple does not have a monopoly. They get to do what they want with their platform. If ios had android's marketshare it would be another story.
  • rocky12345 - Wednesday, July 18, 2018 - link

    You make a valid point I just dug up the market shares and was surprised that Android was so much higher than IOS for market share. I guess surprised because almost everyone I personally know has iPhone's as well as a lot of my customers that come to me for computer service. Tin foil hat time but maybe this is Apples way of controlling their market share if they only ship out so many devices and it keeps their market share a bit lower as well as keeps the watch dogs at bay.

    Like I said that most likely is not the case they probably only can make so many devices each quarter and when you look at Android eco system you got several companies making devices and being sold I am going to bet that's the reason right there and I am sure if Apple could they would make more i devices to sell but hey it's not like they are to worried about it since they are one of the richest companies around.
  • johnthacker - Wednesday, July 18, 2018 - link

    Apple has a smaller market share, but they have such an enormous margin per phone (and money made off ancillary things like the App Store) that they have more profit in the phone industry than all of Android combined, so I'm not sure that market share is the proper metric to look at. But then again, my viewpoint is more from a US standpoint, where antitrust is always from the viewpoint of the consumer; European approaches to antitrust have always been about what's good for other companies, regardless of the consumer.
  • Zizy - Thursday, July 19, 2018 - link

    Even from consumer point of view - customers still have choice to pick Android, no matter if Apple picks 10% or 90% of the profits.
    On the other hand, as Android had 80%+ market share in EU (close to 90% if you exclude UK), consumers are not realistically presented with choice.

    But you are right, this isn't about consumer directly, but about competition.
  • milkod2001 - Thursday, July 19, 2018 - link

    EU might go after Apple for not paying taxes. It own €14 billions in taxes not paid in EU already. Apple made some crazy deal with leprechauns in Ireland for not paying anything.
  • peevee - Friday, July 20, 2018 - link

    Tax laws are per country. Ireland's law allowed it. EU cannot overridde Irish tax laws.
  • Achaios - Wednesday, July 18, 2018 - link

    Ιf they pay in cash, do they get 10% discount?
  • SirPerro - Wednesday, July 18, 2018 - link

    My useless opinion is...

    Yes, they abused their dominance, but... Thank God they did it.

    Android fragmentation is bad enough right now. I cannot imagine the fucking MESS if every OEM had shipped their own fork, or Amazon's fork.

    Basically it would have destroyed the ecosystem and made developers avoid it like the plague.
  • rrinker - Wednesday, July 18, 2018 - link

    Damned if you do, damned if you don't - this is EXACTLY akin to Linux. And many other Open Source projects. Yes, anyone can freely take it and expand it long their own vision. But then there are dozens of versions of "mostly the same thing". More choice, but more confusion, especially after the different variants fork enough to have compatibility issues. here are certainly benefits to a tightly controlled ecosystem where everything from the hardware to the software is tightly integrated - this has always been the issue with Windows, it has to run on any old crap hardware, with drivers written by everyone from experts to complete idiots. ANd when it crashes, everyone blames Windows. Certification of drivers has helped, but of course everyone screams that Microsoft is trying to block innovation by requiring drivers to be certified. Doesn't help that the vetting seems to be about as much as Google does for the Store apps where all sorts of malware gets passed the 'screeners', but if Microsoft clamped down there'd be a huge outcry. Pick one - tightly controlled and stable, or wide open and take your chances. You can't have both.
  • cbm80 - Wednesday, July 18, 2018 - link

    Not that I'm complaining, but Android isn't really dominent. It's co-dominent with Apple. The unit market share favors Android, but that's not the most relavent measure. App store revenue is, because that's what attracts developers.
  • peevee - Friday, July 20, 2018 - link

    Most apps are ad-supported, just like Google's own. And for ads, #of devices matter.
  • dgingeri - Wednesday, July 18, 2018 - link

    Personally, I think Google just ought to say "you can use Android as long as it is not on phones for the EU market", and screw them. They can live with the far less competition friendly iPhones. EU is just capitalism unfriendly due to politics and their general hatred for the US.
  • milkod2001 - Thursday, July 19, 2018 - link

    EU is not capitalism unfriendly.It is US monopolise unfriendly because it wants EU companies to make money instead which is understandable. There is no hatred to US, it is all about money as always:)
  • zepi - Thursday, July 19, 2018 - link

    Certain guy in Washington is constantly attackin Eu, calling them enemies and enacting trade barriers. Maybe if there was someone else less hostile towards others, there were less reasons to find flaws in the doings of US companies.
  • peevee - Friday, July 20, 2018 - link

    EU did it many times before Trump. And US never retaliated. Enough!
  • Tams80 - Wednesday, July 25, 2018 - link

    That's because the EU and other European countries tend to have much stricter regulations that the US.

    FFS, the US allows chlorinated chicken to be sold and you have to wash your eggs because you chemically wash them.
  • unrulycow - Thursday, July 19, 2018 - link

    The main problem with this is that the easiest remedy for Google is to become less open. If they stop releasing source vode then they won't have to worry about forks. If they stop allowing you to change the default applications like Apple, which the EU has said is fine, then there is no problem locking you into it's ecosystem. No good can come of this
  • peevee - Friday, July 20, 2018 - link

    Fines of American companies is the only way EU participates in high-tech development these days... sad.
  • Hyper72 - Saturday, July 21, 2018 - link

    This is silly. The European Commission strongly regulate European companies as well. This is not about EU vs. USA. They clearly also strike down on anti-competitive behavior within the EU from EU companies, both in the past and the present. Whether we agree with them or not; they have investigated and believe Google is dominant and have been strong-arming the market (device manufacturers).
  • BurntMyBacon - Monday, July 23, 2018 - link

    While EU does, in fact, crack down on EU companies that damage other EU companies through illegal practices, there are a few perceptions that fuel this EU vs USA image. This unfortunately leads to some extreme views and misinformation. One of these perceptions is that EU only deals large fines to American companies. This perception likely stems from the fact that American news agencies often ignore EU actions when they don't involve American companies. Another perception is that never fines an EU company that damages a American company in the EU market through illegal practices. I, unfortunately, do not have a counterexample for this perception, so someone else will need to fill in the blank. A third perception is that EU holds EU companies to a different standard than American companies. The high profile Intel case some years back did nothing to dissuade this perception as both Intel and the EU companies they were dealing with allegedly benefited at the expense of AMD, but the EU companies in question were not fined. Certainly, it would have been a different story if Intel threatened the companies in some way to exclude AMD from their line up, but as I understand it, they simply offered cash, marketing support, and discounts for exclusive use of their product. While this was clearly found in violation of the EU antitrust regulations, the EU companies that participated were not damaged. Rather, as they benefited from this arrangement as well, they could more accurately be described as collaborators. Only AMD and possibly the EU companies that didn't buy in could be considered victims.

    The EU is not an entity akin to a patent troll and doesn't attack only American companies. They have a relatively well set of rules that they choose to enforce strictly often to the benefit of not just EU denizens. However, some of their actions have thrown into question the consistency with which they enforce their rules and the possibility of biases in their judgements.

    As to the Google judgement, while I don't necessarily agree with the entire set of allegations nor the weight of the penalty, it does appear that Google was legitimately in violation of EU law for at least some of the allegations. I have a hard time being outraged at the verdict, though I do disagree with it in part.

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