I think Biostar noticed gamers like racing chairs, so they applied the racing thing to their hardware. Makes no sense to me. Marketing of gamer products is rather ridiculous.
I really wanted to say that I agree with you about the mATX/uATX boards. ATX boards are oversized I think. Making things smaller, but still useful, is great. mATX/uATX is the sweet spot. Mini-ITX is too small/impractical though.
I personally would like the Mini-ITX to fit in my LANbox. Micro-ATX doesn't leave much room for airflow! Hopefully the lowprofile heatsink or Corsair liquid cooler will fit. Should be the same as the previous AM4s.
It's not about racing per se; Every computer hardware maker needs some fast or impressive sounding words in their product names. "Gaming" was taken, and besides, is completely superfluous in terms of association.
Too bad this one went so far as to include 2xRGB LED strip headers built-in because that just doesn’t scream of having other built-in LEDs that they want you to be able to sync your entire case with....
I think motherboard manufacturers need to settle down on the childish marketing. Not sure how much putting a Racing led on your motherboard is going to help sales, in fact it deters me from even considering it.
Problem is that stupid stuff like that sells. Companies wouldn't spend the money on it if it didn't. If I had to guess I'd say the fluff is much more desired in Asia than it is in the West.
Companies need some way to differentiate from other companies, so they add some impressive sounding word to their product name. Nothing wrong with that.
People get used to any product/lineup name even if it sound stupid to begin with - just look at ROG.
What kind of word you use doesn't matter much as long as it doesn't bring negative connotations. They just need *something*, so when people hear "Racing X570", they immediately think "Biostar".
I think most people buy based on price and features. Some consider performance and/or looks. Product name only bothers a small portion of the audience.
so, in reference to increased speed, just because swap to new standard (3.0 to 4.0) does not automatically mean doubling of performance for chipset, if the increase ram wise spec is what is is, I can expect AMD to do ":similar: to what Intel normally does on an upping to new standard that is ~50% faster at most, but that also does not mean auto increase of what the overall system will give to you, if the memory bottleneck of dual channel - ddr4 - and Infinifty Fabric is to be "believed" as much as folks through around like it is the last load of poo they can chuck around.
simple "truth" AMD and Intel and Nv handle memory etc etc differently.
Not sure what you think you're talking about. The linked thread is about how much newer bus speeds will speed up GPUs (probably by a negligible amount in x16 slots despite what the creator implies in the 1st post); which is a totally different thing from how fast the databus is.
Intel's DMI bus has been x4 PCIe equivalent from the beginning and has doubled in speed when it went from being derived from PCIe1.0 to 2.0, and doubled in speed again when it went to 3.0.
Since the 570 chipset can support a PCIe 4.0 x4 slot, it's upstream bandwidth is presumably at least PCIe 4.0 x4, or double what existing AMD chipsets offer. Barring evidence to the contrary though, I would assume it's still only 4 lanes wide for cost reasons. And while with SSDs able to saturate an x4 link there's a potential to bottleneck the chipset, with more IO (PCIe, sata, usb) on the CPU socket AMDs mainstream platform is less impacted by this than Intels.
Considering that existing NVME PCIe based SSDs can't currently saturate their existing 4xPCIe 3.0 lanes, unless they are doing a VERY short term burst from ram buffer, I suspect that the doubling of the CPU to chipset bandwidth by changing it to PCIe 4.0 will cover the throughput needs of the NVME drives on the chipset. This isn't to say that one can not ever cause bus contention on that link, just that it's a lot more difficult to do now than it was before.
Please keep in mind, this is a consumer level chipset. If you're going to go after trying to stream data from one NVME drive on the chipset, process it on the CPU, then stream it back to another NVME drive on the chipset, all the while pulling information from a 10Gbps Ethernet card attached to a PCIe slot hung from that same chipset, process that information on the CPU, and stream it back out to a USB 3.1 device hung on the same chipset, while also live streaming 4K video from another USB 3.0 device out to a different network connection, you are definitely going to bottleneck the hell out of that CPU to chipset connection. But, if you're doing all of that, why are you using a consumer grade chipset? Wouldn't you be far better off with a threadripper or some sort of Xeon workstation grade solution?
It will be PCI-E 4.0. Ryzen chipset -> CPU communication is handled by PCIE Express. The Ryzen Zeppelin die (1000,2000 series) has 4 dedicated lanes to communicate with the chipset. They are Gen3. It would be extremely weird if the 3000 series CPU had just Gen3 lanes for communicating with the chipset, because the CPU platform is 4.0 (and some of those lanes are used for that). Also would be a huge bottleneck for I/O. So expect 8GB/s bandwidth between X570 and CPU, minimum.
It seems that infinity fabric is now the bottleneck and new chipset supports now halfspeed to memory speed to infinity fabric. So when the memoryspeed and infinity fabrig speed vere directly Connected in Ryzen 1000 and 2000 series now it is possible to reduce the infinity fabric speed to half. So you have to chose, take slow memory and run infinity fabric at full speed or take fast memory and run infinity fabric at half speed. We see interesting combinations and sometimes it is wice to take as fast memory as possible and sometimes memory that allows full speed to infinity fabric. Depending on what you use the computer!
The jump in manufacturer suggested memory overclocking to DDR4 4000 is promising, but how useful it will be depends on how well the IF and Zen 2 scale. Right now RAM speeds give you pretty decent gains (as long as you keep latency relatively low) until around ~3000/3200 and then diminishing returns kick in.
Still, having the capability is pretty handy, especially with higher speed RAM prices coming down. Some of the 3600 kits are pretty affordable now, and they may have room for a little more speed. We'll have to see how far the new chips scale, to see if it's worth it. Obviously APUs is a different story, but we won't see any actual Zen 2 APUs for a while longer.
If they launched with a Racing X570GTN mini-ITX board that would be awesome. I know space is limited, but if they could fit multiple M.2 Slots on the underside, that would be glorious. Dual HDMI 2.0 and skip the DisplayPort altogether would be desirable as well.
As nice as 16 cores and DDR4-3200 or more sound at first glance, it still makes me wonder if there will be any practical advantage apart from bragging rights.
Overall DRAM bandwidth won't have increased more than 2x over DDR3/4-1600, perhaps less with wait states often keeping step with signal speeds, yet there are now 4x the number of mouths to feed.
If there was a choice of either putting another Epic CPU or 16GB of HBM RAM die on that Ryzen 3000 socket, I am pretty sure I'd go for the RAM rather than having 16 cores suck from a dual channel straw.
Something to keep in mind, they have doubled the L3 cache per CCX (according to every leak we've seen). So, a dual chiplet 12 or 16 core part would have two CPU chiplets, each with 32MB of L3 cache. That's a LOT of L3, and can do a lot to hide DRAM latency and reduce bandwidth needs in all but the most bandwidth constrained of benchmarks. I suspect that a 12 and 16 core Ryzen 3XXX chip will at the very least perform just as well, if not better, than the threadripper 1920/1950 in every task that isn't almost exclusively a test of memory throughput.
Furthermore, there is an opportunity here for a motherboard manufacturer to alleviate some of the other constraints of the AM4 socket. There were three advantages of the Threadripper over the Ryzen AM4 products: Memory bandwidth, Core count, PCI lanes. Memory bandwidth is still going to be an issue for Ryzen AM4, but, supporting faster DDR4 AND the doubling of the L3 caches will help make up for a lot of that. Core count, especially as compared to first gen threadripper, will be a wash, and the cores on Ryzen 3XXX will be higher clocked AND support higher IPC in most cases. As for the PCIe lanes, having PCIe 4.0 allows a motherboard manufacturer to use a PCIe switch to convert all of the lanes coming from the processor, or at least the first 16, in to 4 8xPCIe 3.0 slots that are direct to the CPU and give them full bandwidth. For almost every possible task that most threadripper systems were put to use for, the combination of those 4 slots, plus the additional few slots that come from the chipset, which is now connected via PCIe 4.0, will more than cover their needs. Does the motherboard get more expensive, sure! You don't get those chips for free. But, it'll still be cheaper than the threadripper boards that are out there and will give you almost the same performance in almost every case you can think of.
There is SO much flexibility available in this platform, it just takes a willing motherboard partner to exploit it.
If the new Zen 2.0 and X570 bards are OC friendlly- then AMD gonna get massive amout of free publicity from the OC community and world wide OC competition events that all cover to AMD after 10 years that only Intel was used.
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40 Comments
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Marlin1975 - Monday, May 13, 2019 - link
Really, Racing? But YES!!! the 500 series boards are coming. Means Zen2 is very close.Hopefully there will be some mATX x570 boards or release of the B550 chipset as well.
BigDragon - Monday, May 13, 2019 - link
I think Biostar noticed gamers like racing chairs, so they applied the racing thing to their hardware. Makes no sense to me. Marketing of gamer products is rather ridiculous.I really wanted to say that I agree with you about the mATX/uATX boards. ATX boards are oversized I think. Making things smaller, but still useful, is great. mATX/uATX is the sweet spot. Mini-ITX is too small/impractical though.
AlHayes - Monday, May 13, 2019 - link
I personally would like the Mini-ITX to fit in my LANbox. Micro-ATX doesn't leave much room for airflow! Hopefully the lowprofile heatsink or Corsair liquid cooler will fit. Should be the same as the previous AM4s.Hul8 - Tuesday, May 14, 2019 - link
It's not about racing per se; Every computer hardware maker needs some fast or impressive sounding words in their product names. "Gaming" was taken, and besides, is completely superfluous in terms of association.drexnx - Monday, May 13, 2019 - link
eh, makes as much sense as STRIX or AORUS or ROG or Taichi or MEG or whatever. They're all kinda awful.Irata - Tuesday, May 14, 2019 - link
A non-tacky (no rgb lights, no weird color schemes) top of the line mainboard would indeed be nice.Tams80 - Tuesday, May 14, 2019 - link
Nonsense! We need a SMEG line of products though!Hul8 - Tuesday, May 14, 2019 - link
Add "-MA" in the for the Micro-ATX variant.Fallen Kell - Tuesday, May 14, 2019 - link
Too bad this one went so far as to include 2xRGB LED strip headers built-in because that just doesn’t scream of having other built-in LEDs that they want you to be able to sync your entire case with....cosmotic - Monday, May 13, 2019 - link
Ah yes, a JPEGevanh - Monday, May 13, 2019 - link
Here's hoping AMD provides some CPU models without coolers again.RavenRampkin - Monday, May 13, 2019 - link
6+6 or 8+4, waddya think? (OK I may be underestimating Bio just a bit)Opencg - Monday, May 13, 2019 - link
lol you never knowqlum - Monday, May 13, 2019 - link
1 phase memory, 1 phase support voltage, 2 phase igp, fat 4 phase for the corenevcairiel - Tuesday, May 14, 2019 - link
Just check the X470 board, they likely haven't changed it much.nevcairiel - Tuesday, May 14, 2019 - link
Personally I'm going for a board without even any IGP outputs, and hopefully also no wasted VRMs for it, since Ryzen doesn't have one anyway.Dug - Monday, May 13, 2019 - link
I think motherboard manufacturers need to settle down on the childish marketing.Not sure how much putting a Racing led on your motherboard is going to help sales, in fact it deters me from even considering it.
shabby - Monday, May 13, 2019 - link
I think they should go whole different route, Wizard x570, Goblin x570, Orc x570 and so forth.Irata - Tuesday, May 14, 2019 - link
LOL Wizard would actually sound kinda cool.DigitalFreak - Monday, May 13, 2019 - link
Problem is that stupid stuff like that sells. Companies wouldn't spend the money on it if it didn't. If I had to guess I'd say the fluff is much more desired in Asia than it is in the West.Hul8 - Tuesday, May 14, 2019 - link
Companies need some way to differentiate from other companies, so they add some impressive sounding word to their product name. Nothing wrong with that.People get used to any product/lineup name even if it sound stupid to begin with - just look at ROG.
Hul8 - Tuesday, May 14, 2019 - link
What kind of word you use doesn't matter much as long as it doesn't bring negative connotations. They just need *something*, so when people hear "Racing X570", they immediately think "Biostar".Hul8 - Tuesday, May 14, 2019 - link
I think most people buy based on price and features. Some consider performance and/or looks. Product name only bothers a small portion of the audience.ZoZo - Monday, May 13, 2019 - link
So if the chipset now provides PCI-E 4.0, what's the link between CPU and chipset? Hopefully, it's at least twice as fast as before.Dragonstongue - Monday, May 13, 2019 - link
https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/pcie-3-0-vs-4...so, in reference to increased speed, just because swap to new standard (3.0 to 4.0) does not automatically mean doubling of performance for chipset, if the increase ram wise spec is what is is, I can expect AMD to do ":similar: to what Intel normally does on an upping to new standard that is ~50% faster at most, but that also does not mean auto increase of what the overall system will give to you, if the memory bottleneck of dual channel - ddr4 - and Infinifty Fabric is to be "believed" as much as folks through around like it is the last load of poo they can chuck around.
simple "truth" AMD and Intel and Nv handle memory etc etc differently.
anyways, we will soon see, shan't we ^.^
DanNeely - Monday, May 13, 2019 - link
Not sure what you think you're talking about. The linked thread is about how much newer bus speeds will speed up GPUs (probably by a negligible amount in x16 slots despite what the creator implies in the 1st post); which is a totally different thing from how fast the databus is.Intel's DMI bus has been x4 PCIe equivalent from the beginning and has doubled in speed when it went from being derived from PCIe1.0 to 2.0, and doubled in speed again when it went to 3.0.
Since the 570 chipset can support a PCIe 4.0 x4 slot, it's upstream bandwidth is presumably at least PCIe 4.0 x4, or double what existing AMD chipsets offer. Barring evidence to the contrary though, I would assume it's still only 4 lanes wide for cost reasons. And while with SSDs able to saturate an x4 link there's a potential to bottleneck the chipset, with more IO (PCIe, sata, usb) on the CPU socket AMDs mainstream platform is less impacted by this than Intels.
lightningz71 - Tuesday, May 14, 2019 - link
Considering that existing NVME PCIe based SSDs can't currently saturate their existing 4xPCIe 3.0 lanes, unless they are doing a VERY short term burst from ram buffer, I suspect that the doubling of the CPU to chipset bandwidth by changing it to PCIe 4.0 will cover the throughput needs of the NVME drives on the chipset. This isn't to say that one can not ever cause bus contention on that link, just that it's a lot more difficult to do now than it was before.Please keep in mind, this is a consumer level chipset. If you're going to go after trying to stream data from one NVME drive on the chipset, process it on the CPU, then stream it back to another NVME drive on the chipset, all the while pulling information from a 10Gbps Ethernet card attached to a PCIe slot hung from that same chipset, process that information on the CPU, and stream it back out to a USB 3.1 device hung on the same chipset, while also live streaming 4K video from another USB 3.0 device out to a different network connection, you are definitely going to bottleneck the hell out of that CPU to chipset connection. But, if you're doing all of that, why are you using a consumer grade chipset? Wouldn't you be far better off with a threadripper or some sort of Xeon workstation grade solution?
AshlayW - Monday, May 13, 2019 - link
It will be PCI-E 4.0. Ryzen chipset -> CPU communication is handled by PCIE Express. The Ryzen Zeppelin die (1000,2000 series) has 4 dedicated lanes to communicate with the chipset. They are Gen3. It would be extremely weird if the 3000 series CPU had just Gen3 lanes for communicating with the chipset, because the CPU platform is 4.0 (and some of those lanes are used for that). Also would be a huge bottleneck for I/O. So expect 8GB/s bandwidth between X570 and CPU, minimum.haukionkannel - Monday, May 13, 2019 - link
It seems that infinity fabric is now the bottleneck and new chipset supports now halfspeed to memory speed to infinity fabric. So when the memoryspeed and infinity fabrig speed vere directly Connected in Ryzen 1000 and 2000 series now it is possible to reduce the infinity fabric speed to half. So you have to chose, take slow memory and run infinity fabric at full speed or take fast memory and run infinity fabric at half speed.We see interesting combinations and sometimes it is wice to take as fast memory as possible and sometimes memory that allows full speed to infinity fabric. Depending on what you use the computer!
schujj07 - Tuesday, May 14, 2019 - link
The infinity fabric speed has always been linked to the RAM clock.Arsenica - Monday, May 13, 2019 - link
4 DIMM slots in a mini-ITX board? I don't think sobill44 - Monday, May 13, 2019 - link
M.2 PCIe 4.0 x4 = 32Gb/s?Should that be 64Gb/s?
Alexvrb - Monday, May 13, 2019 - link
The jump in manufacturer suggested memory overclocking to DDR4 4000 is promising, but how useful it will be depends on how well the IF and Zen 2 scale. Right now RAM speeds give you pretty decent gains (as long as you keep latency relatively low) until around ~3000/3200 and then diminishing returns kick in.Still, having the capability is pretty handy, especially with higher speed RAM prices coming down. Some of the 3600 kits are pretty affordable now, and they may have room for a little more speed. We'll have to see how far the new chips scale, to see if it's worth it. Obviously APUs is a different story, but we won't see any actual Zen 2 APUs for a while longer.
HardwareDufus - Tuesday, May 14, 2019 - link
If they launched with a Racing X570GTN mini-ITX board that would be awesome. I know space is limited, but if they could fit multiple M.2 Slots on the underside, that would be glorious. Dual HDMI 2.0 and skip the DisplayPort altogether would be desirable as well.abufrejoval - Tuesday, May 14, 2019 - link
As nice as 16 cores and DDR4-3200 or more sound at first glance, it still makes me wonder if there will be any practical advantage apart from bragging rights.Overall DRAM bandwidth won't have increased more than 2x over DDR3/4-1600, perhaps less with wait states often keeping step with signal speeds, yet there are now 4x the number of mouths to feed.
If there was a choice of either putting another Epic CPU or 16GB of HBM RAM die on that Ryzen 3000 socket, I am pretty sure I'd go for the RAM rather than having 16 cores suck from a dual channel straw.
Irata - Tuesday, May 14, 2019 - link
If it's not for you, go for the 6C or 8C modelslightningz71 - Tuesday, May 14, 2019 - link
Something to keep in mind, they have doubled the L3 cache per CCX (according to every leak we've seen). So, a dual chiplet 12 or 16 core part would have two CPU chiplets, each with 32MB of L3 cache. That's a LOT of L3, and can do a lot to hide DRAM latency and reduce bandwidth needs in all but the most bandwidth constrained of benchmarks. I suspect that a 12 and 16 core Ryzen 3XXX chip will at the very least perform just as well, if not better, than the threadripper 1920/1950 in every task that isn't almost exclusively a test of memory throughput.Furthermore, there is an opportunity here for a motherboard manufacturer to alleviate some of the other constraints of the AM4 socket. There were three advantages of the Threadripper over the Ryzen AM4 products: Memory bandwidth, Core count, PCI lanes. Memory bandwidth is still going to be an issue for Ryzen AM4, but, supporting faster DDR4 AND the doubling of the L3 caches will help make up for a lot of that. Core count, especially as compared to first gen threadripper, will be a wash, and the cores on Ryzen 3XXX will be higher clocked AND support higher IPC in most cases. As for the PCIe lanes, having PCIe 4.0 allows a motherboard manufacturer to use a PCIe switch to convert all of the lanes coming from the processor, or at least the first 16, in to 4 8xPCIe 3.0 slots that are direct to the CPU and give them full bandwidth. For almost every possible task that most threadripper systems were put to use for, the combination of those 4 slots, plus the additional few slots that come from the chipset, which is now connected via PCIe 4.0, will more than cover their needs. Does the motherboard get more expensive, sure! You don't get those chips for free. But, it'll still be cheaper than the threadripper boards that are out there and will give you almost the same performance in almost every case you can think of.
There is SO much flexibility available in this platform, it just takes a willing motherboard partner to exploit it.
PC Crazy - Tuesday, May 14, 2019 - link
Interesting with the 4000+ OC RAM and by that, finally moving from 3200+ MHz. But also cool they added on all three M.2 slots the passive cooler.BigMamaInHouse - Tuesday, May 14, 2019 - link
If the new Zen 2.0 and X570 bards are OC friendlly- then AMD gonna get massive amout of free publicity from the OC community and world wide OC competition events that all cover to AMD after 10 years that only Intel was used.ballsystemlord - Thursday, May 16, 2019 - link
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